The Boundaries of Obscene Speech Between Husband and Wife
Question
Shalom
During the days of Shovavim I began to reflect on my conduct when fulfilling the mitzvah, and I wondered whether it is considered good, bad, or forbidden.
I apologize in advance for the details, but this is Torah and I need to learn..
My wife and I are used to speaking to each other in a way that, at other times, would be defined as vulgar/obscene speech. For example:
- How good it is to be so close to you without…
- I think there is nothing as beautiful as you (both openly and secretly)
- I love your …, and she says the same to me in return
- In our speech we imagine that we will go to the pool, etc.
- Come, let us desire each other together.
I don’t want to go into too much detail, but this is the general kind of talk, or even a bit less explicit.
On the one hand, you told me that this is forbidden.
On the other hand, I don’t understand how this works...
Is it not obvious that with ordinary love alone one cannot fulfill the mitzvah, and that deeds beyond ordinary love are required — physical closeness and so on? And it is permitted to do everything and to look at everything; there is no halachic limitation other than regarding looking at and kissing those places that are forbidden… From all this it seems that simple love is not enough. So why, when it comes to speech, are we limited to the kind of things we would say all day — about our love for each other and how good it is to live together? Such speech does not really help at all with the fulfillment of the conjugal duty… Is the idea that one may arouse each other only through actions and looking, and not through words?
I want to clarify that I am seeking what HaKadosh Baruch Hu wants, and I am ready for anything despite the difficulties, but I lack clarity.
Please also spell out in detail what is recommended, what is permitted, and what is forbidden, because sometimes there is a greater need, and it is necessary to distinguish between what is merely not recommended and what is actually forbidden (for example, when tired or weak, it will take much longer without any talk, etc.).
I see that she also speaks this way, and of course she wants me to speak to her like this as well, so that it will not be one-sided. Should I stop this entirely?
I would very much appreciate complete clarity and not just a dry answer.
Many thanks.
Answer
Shalom u’vracha
None of these things involve any prohibition at all.
The prohibition applies only to speaking about matters that are themselves forbidden.